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Post #1  Post subject: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:44 pm 
I think republicans made a bad mistake today, for us, when republican FCC Commissioners were allowed to overturnin' Obama's Net Neutrality law. Net neutrality is about the only thing Obama did that I agreed with.... :surp:

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Post #2  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:23 am 
There have been many many mistakes but Im keeping my mouth shut because I know you guys for the most part support everything hes doing. This one really got to me:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... b740a74f99

Bears Ears has always been a favorite with me and I think the protected lands should have been increased rather that cut back on. Everybody has seen those pueblo dwellings cut into the rocks, along with those there are numerous, hundreds of burial sites around that way, ancient rock art abounds, many thousand and thousand of years old that need protecting. But nope Trump is opening it up for mining and 4 wheelers, along with that will come some vandals, some grave robbers and relic seekers...oh well. Were not Mexico some things should be preserved. I say that, were not Mexico... :laughsmile: I was on one of my many trips down that way, this time I ws way down there, the Yucatan, exploring some Mayan ruins, took a tour once with a guide....hes talking to us about the ruins when he asks me to step aside....he wanted to point out these petrified human bones I was standing on :laughsmile: Nothing like preservation.

And tax bill coming up for vote, hidden deep in the document there is verbage that will open up that land that WW loves so much up in Alaska to strip mining and drilling, logging and destroying the beauty of the preserves. They have to sneak it through because they know it is so much against public opinion....what ever happened to by the people, for the people?


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Post #3  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:35 pm 
I'm 110% for creating land monuments to preserve history. It's something we need to do. But I'm not for creating a million acre monument just to protect a few hundred or few thousand acres. Most large monuments, and large Alaska preserves, are nothing more than land grabs by people who wanna take us all back to the stone age. Also I think most large monuments, like Bear Ears, far exceeded the intent of the monument law and were simply created as a way to stop the removal of publicly owned natural resources of any kind from large chunks of public land.

The Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, targeted in the tax bill, is an area in remote northeast Alaska that stated out at around 8 million acres but morphed under Jimmy Carter to around 19.6 million including over 8 million acres of newly designated wilderness. It's a desolate area the size of South Carolina with no roads and no people other than 7 scattered Alaskan families who still have permits to continue living within the refuge, and one very very small native coastal village. I was in parts of that large refuge several times over the years while working for oil companies before and after it was expanded by Carter as his way to stop development of any kind in that huge area. But due to a compromise between him and Congress he was allowed to expand the refuge to 19.6 million acres in exchange for congress being allowed to set aside 1.5 million of those 19.6 million acres for possible future energy development with their consent. I was still in Alaska when Carter signed the law that expanded the refuge. Plus I'm thinkin' the law also expanded many more Alaskan conservation areas. And the last I heard oil and gas companies are only asking congress for permission to drill on 2000 aces of that 1.5 million acres, which is no more than they've been asking to do, with Alaska's blessings, just about ever since the 1.5 million acres was set aside. And if they're eventually allowed to develop that 2000 acres I hardly think that will ruin an area the size of South Carolina. They could develop the whole 1.5 million acre set aside and it wouldn't ruin that humongous refuge...

I haven't read anything in the tax bill about it allowing strip mining and logging all over Alaska and destroying the beauty of it's preserves. All I know for sure is the govenrment says there are around 104 million acres, which is an area the size of California, set aside in Alaska for conservation purposes. And in no way shape or form can drilling on 2000, or even 1.5 million acres in an area the size of California destroy the beauty of Alaska's preserves.

Take a trip to Alaska's huge Prudehoe Bay and Kuparuk oil fields on the Arctic coast where I once worked for years, then come back and tell me how they interfere in any way with the wildlife or the caribou's migration routes, or how they've ruined the environment in that area. You won't be able to because aggressive conservation and environmental oversight didn't and doesn't allow any of that to happen. And the same will hold true when common sense prevails again and the 2000 acre ANWR field is allowed to be developed, which will put Alaska back on her feet and put hundreds of millions into the national treasury. But listen to the liberals or the Sierra Club or The Defenders of Wildlife or any other animal and environmental radicals and you'd think one tiny little oil and gas field in ANWR will mean the end of the world as we know it. And that's just simply not true... :smack:

Find the little red dot in the graphic below and you can see the size of the 2000 aces of proposed energy development in the Acrtic National Wildlife Refuge that the tax bill targets, compared to the size of the 19.6 million acre refuge itself. If you tried to compare that 2000 acre red dot to the California sized 100+ million acres currently locked up in Alaska for conservation purposes you probably wouldn't even be able to see it... :smack:

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Post #4  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:58 pm 
My friends up there tell me that another federally mandated atrocity was the Native Claims settlement. The corporation founded by the natives grabbed land for all intents and purposes cutting off access to millions of acres of public land. They did this by claiming strips along highways and rivers cutting off all non natives access to these lands owned by everyone. When Alaska was made a state a lot of promises were made to Alaskans by the feds and almost all of it was lies. People were in effect run off of land that had been in private use for years.
Other than the California transplants or Sierra Club members there is not much love for Washington up there.


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Post #5  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:08 pm 
I am not so sure about the so called Net Neutrality Act. The net is anything but neutral. You Tube is conducting censorship of what it deems in appropriate content such as conservative commentary, hunting, firearms, Christianity etc. At the same time they do not place controls on sites that have content that is liberal in nature. Sure they are a private business but the venue was supposed to be an area of expression. Many good hunting, firearms and conservative channels have either disappeared or had to go to pay to see. That does not seem to neutral to me.
I am basically opposed to government intervention of any kind. Let this one happen then the giant octopus arms of bureaucracy grab more and more.


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Post #6  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:05 pm 
Hope your right. I feel the same about conservation laws the same lots here feel about gun laws. You dont want to give up an inch. Give up an inch now and they'll take a mile later. Once a sacred grave site is gone, destroyed, you can't get it back.


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Post #7  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:08 am 
Bears Ears is not rich in natural resources, there are no resources in the ground that cant be found a few hundred miles to either the east or the west. It was created to preserve historical artifacts, to offer some if limited protection against grave robbers, pot hunters, vandals. Nobodies trying to horde publically owned resources, they are trying to protect their heritage, sound familiar?
https://www.grandcanyontrust.org/bears- ... gIWevD_BwE


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Post #8  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:01 am 
If the ancestors of the vanquished slave owning people of the Confederate States of America can't have a few monuments in small scattered parks and old battlefields, sometimes no bigger than a half acre of land, then no way should the ancestors of the vanquished slave owning Native Tribes be allowed to have monuments that cover hundreds or thousands of square miles and millions of acres. If we set aside millions of acres of land for all the countries and peoples who have been vanquished from this land the rest of us would probably starve to death. Native tribes with state help can gather the artifacts they need to preserve their history and build themselves a museum to put it all in just like the ancestors of the vanquished confederate states are now being told to do... Or we can, and should, let both groups have small core area monuments with museums where the Indians can go do their war dances with their fake scalps hanging around their necks and dream about how it woulda been if they hadn't been vanquished by the palefaces and confederates can have their own core area monuments where they can put on old confederate uniforms and sit by a campfire talking about how it woulda been if they hadn't been vanquished by them damn Yankees, preserving and passing down their history without locking up half a state. Tying up millions of acres of land in these modern days of expanding populations with their increased need for energy and land uses in the name of Indian or even Confederate history by out of touch with reality politicians is nothing more than a modern day fuzzy feel good land grab. Yes we should preserve the history of both these groups of people. But no way in these modern days should we ever set aside millions of untouchable acres for anybody because we have no way of knowing what the future holds in this now fast changing world we live in.

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Post #9  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:34 pm 
Its a big big ole country, ive driven miles and miles out there without seeing nothing but a roadrunner. Oh about those confederate monuments...this a get you going :happy0035:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... peech.html


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Post #10  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:08 am 
If the cause of the Confederacy was wrong like this snowflake Mayor of New Orleans says, then why isn't the cause of Native American's wrong? We were both fighting the United States for our homeland. The US broke treaties, through laws, with the Confederate states no different than they broke treaties with native Americans. They were determined to take the land of both groups and when both groups rebelled they were ruthlessly vanquished by the United States Military. Yet Native Americans get million acre monuments and we can't even have a statue? I don't think so.... :th_no.gif: :th_no.gif: :th_no.gif:

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Post #11  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:39 am 
Troll alert!


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Post #12  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:48 pm 
Naw the South wasn't fighting for land they were fighting to preserve the barbaric practice of human slavery.


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Post #13  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:49 am 
I'm not an internet Troll :happy0035: Sometimes I play Devils Advocate, sometimes I offer an opposing viewpoint, sometimes I just try to let people see what it may be like to walk in anothers shoes. But I don't intentionally post crap up just to start something. Maybe I shouldn't have said "this a get you going" when I provided that link to the Mayor, Im sorry about that one. Like I've said before it would be a boring world if everybody held the same beliefs and acted and responded to things the same. We are a diverse bunch, its why there are so many flavors of ice cream :yep: Everybody has a right to his or her opinion, I respect yours. If you want to think Im a troll you can its your right, but Im really not, to my definition anyway. More of an ogre maybe :laughsmile:


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Post #14  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:45 am 
+1


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Post #15  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:19 am 
Sorry Hip, but living in the South you should have learned by now that 99.999999999% of Confederates didn’t own slaves. Plantation owners may have been fighting for slavery but the idea that the South was fighting for slavery is a myth of history perpetrated by, are you ready :happy0035: , liberals. The mighty industrial North looked down on the rural uneducated South and wanted control of their profitable agri industry. The South finally got tired of all their demands and bitch slapped them one day, and the rest is history. But Slavery wasn’t an issue for the North until later when the South was kicking their butt, when Lincoln started using it to justify the war and turn sentiment towards the North and inspire his troops, which worked. But the majority of Southerners like the Indians were fighting to protect their homeland and way of life from the demands of Uncle Sam, not for slavery. May have been more slaves in the South but probably more Indians owned slaves than Confederates and treated them a whole lot worse. So if the criteria for monuments is, were you fighting to protect your homeland from control by The Great White Father, then both groups deserve million acre monuments on demand, except common sense dictates that nobody in these modern times deserves monuments that large. But if Liberals are still hell bent on giving vanquished peoples land back to them a million or more acres at a time then they should return Arkansas National Parks and National Forests back to the people of the vanquished Confederate state of Arkansas... :thumbup:

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Post #16  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:57 pm 
It was and still is about states rights and a strict interpretation of the Constitution. The south lost and ever since the federal government has taken more and more from the people until it is a huge trillion dollar malignancy. This cancer has overstepped its constitutional authority and gets worse every day. As WW said the liberals portray the civil war as about slavery and to a small degree it was but mostly it was about federal encroachment on individual and states rights. Slavery however is a huge selling and propaganda point that the masses have swallowed hook line and sinker especially in the last 60 years by manipulation of and by media and academia. Tell a lie long enough and the gullible think it is true.


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Post #17  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:50 pm 
Government and media does it well. As long as they keep people divided, they will get their way with our money. An they are united as a whole to accomplish just that.

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Post #18  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:16 am 
I agree it was all about states rights, the right for states to have slavery. What other rights they had concerns with is a great mystery to me. I thinks it might be a little higher than 1% slave owners lol, don't know where that figure came from. He government 1860s census data says we had a high in Mississippi with 49% households owning slaves, next 46% in South Carolina and they keep dropping down to a low of 3% in Deleware. But the medium slave owned by households in 1860 was right at 32%. About one in every three had a slave or slaves be it for household chores and cooking or just a stable boy. Now the picture of a plantation with hundreds of cotten pickers, you are correct there, few and far between. Maybe that's the 1% your thinking of. States wanted to succeed in order to keep slaves and new states enters by the union to have slaves. That's what it was all about, all the information is out there and about all historians agree. Guys that study this for their work unlike you and i.


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Post #19  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:01 pm 
WOW..... After reading where slaves cost $400 to $2,000 in 1850, $11,000- $55,000 in today's money, I would never have guessed that 49% of the people of a deep South rural state like Mississippi was so wealthy before the Civil War they could afford to own, board, cloth, and feed slaves of their own.. Amazin'...

But whatever the case the war wasn't about slavery per say, the abolition of slavery was simply a result of the war. Lincoln himself has been quoted as saying he didn't fight to end slavery but to keep the country united. That statement is validated by his late coming afterthought Emancipation Proclamation being valid only for slaves in the south and nowhere else. It wasn't until the 13th Amendment came into being that slavery was abolished nation wide.

Arguing about the Civil War is an argument that's been going on since the war ended and one that will never be settled because there is over 150 years, and counting, of fake news to contend with, including probably 30 years of sure nuff fake Internet news, and way too many biases and counter facts to the facts used by all sides for them to ever come to an agreement accepted by all.

So all I can say, until the South rises again, is let the argument continue... :yep:

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Post #20  Post subject: Re: Republican Mistake?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:41 pm 
I was shocked also, $40,000 in todays money for a slave, but I guess if you can figure on 20 years worth of work that's a just a couple grand a year for somebody to do the work around the place you just cant do or want to do. Maybe it was a bargain who knows. After researching it a bit I was surprised it was so prevalent. I didn't think it was a fraction of a percent like you, if it was that low it would be like it didn't even exist. But I had no idea it averaged about one in three households. But all the data I can find supports that.


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