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Post #1  Post subject: Video of Ponca CWD Public Meeting 3/10/16
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:41 pm 

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Post #2  Post subject: Re: Video of Ponca CWD Public Meeting 3/10/16
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:22 pm 
I watched the video. A lot of the early part was same as the other public meetings. The question and answer session is where the real meat of the discussion is. Most of the questions were of routine nature. The one question that was asked and never really answered was why are no elk being shot right now unless they are sick. The rather evasive answer IMO was that to be statistically valid 300 elk would have to be shot. When pressed by the questioner the answer was that the question had been answered. Reality is no it was not. The question still is why are the elk not being sampled. Any animal with such a large home range needs to be sampled same as the deer. The population needs to be reduced quickly to prevent large geographical distribution of the CWD.

I still smell a rat. :yep:


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Post #3  Post subject: Re: Video of Ponca CWD Public Meeting 3/10/16
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:40 am 
twodog wrote:
I watched the video. A lot of the early part was same as the other public meetings. The question and answer session is where the real meat of the discussion is. Most of the questions were of routine nature. The one question that was asked and never really answered was why are no elk being shot right now unless they are sick. The rather evasive answer IMO was that to be statistically valid 300 elk would have to be shot. When pressed by the questioner the answer was that the question had been answered. Reality is no it was not. The question still is why are the elk not being sampled. Any animal with such a large home range needs to be sampled same as the deer. The population needs to be reduced quickly to prevent large geographical distribution of the CWD.

I still smell a rat. :yep:



I had a bad attitude from the word go with this deal. From the sound of things they have not proven me wrong yet.
Maybe if I was involved. I would look at it different. We will see how it goes as the temps start to warm.

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Post #4  Post subject: Re: Video of Ponca CWD Public Meeting 3/10/16
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:42 am 
Twodog, does the CWD get more aggressive as the summer temps come into play?

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Post #5  Post subject: Re: Video of Ponca CWD Public Meeting 3/10/16
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:06 am 
:hesaid: Not that I am aware of.


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Post #6  Post subject: Re: Video of Ponca CWD Public Meeting 3/10/16
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:27 pm 
I agree G&F so far hasn't given a valid scientific answer to the elk question. When asked, Assistant Chief of Wildlife Dick Baxter now just says G&F doesn't wanna kill any elk out of their elk herd, followed by no valid scientific data to support that decision. Yes there's now been a CWD deer found 12 miles away from the initial positive elk. And yes it's said that elk are less susceptible to CWD than are deer. But that doesn't mean that healthy looking elk in the original core area aren't infected and continuing to spread CWD among other elk and our deer herd all the way to the far corners of their large range, with those newly infected animals spreading it even further as we speak. I thought the purpose of CWD management was to slow the spread of CWD and not do anything that even "might"speed it's spread and continue to infect the soil for untold years to come?

And yes the G&F moderator at Ponca was right when he told the public while they were pushing for further clarification of the elk decision that that question had been answered, before he hurriedly moved on to a different question. But unfortunately it was answered in a way a non biologist like myself would answer it with no scientific data included to back up my answer, scientific data like professional wildlife biologists normally include in their answers.

On the other hand, since professionals say there's still unknowns in CWD management, maybe there's not any scientific data from other states on how to handle the situation we're in with our elk. And if that's the case then G&F needs to clarify there's not any and put out documentation showing their decision is based on the best advice they can get from CWD experts from around the country. Because try as they may, and this isn't a knock on them, G&F simply doesn't have the hands on CWD management experience at this early stage necessary to be making decisions of this magnitude simply based on what "they" think.

To simply state they don't wanna kill any of their elk without any valid data to back it up is a ready made recipe for sowing unnecessary suspicion among the public at a time when they need our help and support more than they have since the time they needed it to get their sales tax amendment passed. And the way the agency has so far handled their decision to exclude elk from initial and aggressive CWD sampling, and the way some of the public is reacting to that decision, I think completely validates the recent words of Commissioner Mahoney to G&F staff when he told them they need to be open and transparent with the public concerning their every move on this because suspicion is 10 times worse than the public knowing everything.

I personally think it's important they give a valid reason backed up with solid data concerning their elk decision because I have no doubt that it would be to ours and theirs and our deer and elk herds advantage for them to give us one. Because if they try to pull the wool over our eyes on any aspect of this CWD journey that we're all now on together, like they're known to try to do sometimes on other things, it could very well end up not only costing Arkansas the majority of our large deer herd down the road, it could also end up costing G&F their cherished elk herd in the much nearer future and leave them with no infectious prion free area big enough for them to start another one. There is simply no viable way for G&F to keep a handle on CWD without the complete trust of Arkansas' landowners and hunters. A trust that can only be built and maintained by their total honesty and complete transparency. And if they fail to see and act on that fact, then I believe everything they do concerning CWD will in the end be an exercise in futility and Arkansas will eventually take the place of Wisconsin as being the state that other states use when deciding how NOT to manage for CWD.....

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Post #7  Post subject: Re: Video of Ponca CWD Public Meeting 3/10/16
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:39 pm 
Apparently AGFC now considers one confirmed CWD deer enough of a statistic to set out to kill as many as 300 deer for testing (600 if you count the Pruitt Zone, where only an elk , no deer, has been confirmed CWD thus far) yet the confirmed CWD elk is not enough to pursue killing possibly 40 elk !?

Now it seems only elk that appear sick will be killed for testing ?? The "scientific experts" say an animal may be infected with CWD years before symptoms appear. Something simply does not add up to this ignorant hillbilly. Hopefully someone can educate me.


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Post #8  Post subject: Re: Video of Ponca CWD Public Meeting 3/10/16
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:30 pm 
No one has asked but here is what I make of the situation.

Elk do have a lower prevalence rate. Statistics may say it takes 300 animals for a valid sample. I cannot say as my knowledge of statistics is rather thin and dated.

As Cory Gray pointed out there is a need to act on what we know. Here is what I know no guess I know these things.
First we have had one confirmed CWD elk so CWD is in the elk herd. Second elk in Arkansas travel long distances. I have personally either seen elk sign or the animals as far north as Green Forest and as far south as just outside of Hector in central Pope County. I have seen sign of elk several times in food plots in Piney Creeks WMA. I have seen elk sign to the west just below Fallsville in Johnson County. I know these things for rock solid certain. Infected animals shed prions every time the defecated, urinate, or pass saliva. An infected elk is capable of traveling very long distances shedding prions all along the way. It is not out of the realm of possibility for right now an infected elk to be traveling in the national forest within a few miles of where I am sitting typing this.

For the AGFC to not sample elk particularly in the peripheral areas such as Falling Waters Bearcat Hollow area and other herds outside the river corridor is playing Russian Roulette with deer over a very large part of northern Arkansas. They need to sampling these herds heavily RIGHT NOW. Not next fall or when one shows up on the verge of death. To not sample is again in my opinion bordering on negligence regardless of any statistical standards.

I intend to send Commissioner Reeves an email stating exactly this. Anyone who cares at all about our deer hunting heritage should do so as well.


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